tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post1341301941680793617..comments2023-06-02T17:22:43.445+01:00Comments on Luna17: Why is the revolutionary left not growing? luna17http://www.blogger.com/profile/03754650933188634442noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-52985408427213595042013-02-20T17:53:58.997+00:002013-02-20T17:53:58.997+00:00Thanks for a very thoughtful article addressing a ...Thanks for a very thoughtful article addressing a crucial issue for all of us on the Left and concisely stated by your question "For those of us committed to revolutionary politics and the need for revolutionary organisation, what is needed to grow?" While the examples you refer to in the article reference the experiences of the Left in the UK, I see many similarities with what has happened here in Canada where I am from and my experiences as a former member of the Communist Party of Canada. The objective conditions that you identify as being responsible for the stagnation of the Left,(1)the damaging impact of neo-liberalism, (2)the defeats for the working class, and (3)the historic marginalization of the left, generally coincide with the historical trend throughout the world. I disagree however with your assessment of the importance and significance of the role of "organizational" issues as being "flawed and limited explanations" for this phenomenon. As Tom Walker observed in his piece 'Lenin versus Leninism'; If you have ‘forty years of experience’ of Leninism, and your organisation is about the same size now as it was when you started, you’re doing it wrong. Current crisis and expulsions by the CC of the SWP are solid proof of the need to address the "organizational" aspects both in understanding the lack of growth of the Left in the past, and on how we go about rebuilding a Left opposition in the future. Pham Bhin's comments on the organizational structure of the SWP could apply to almost any of the sects on the Left claiming to be part of the Leninist legacy - "Paid full-time leaders of “Leninist” groups stay in power for many years and decades; they accumulate huge gaps in their resumes and professional development that make returning to the labor market almost impossible; therefore, they have a very personal stake in maintaining their paychecks and livelihoods which are derived from their office. So they institute closed slate systems to make their removal all but impossible; they expel dissidents; they prevent horizontal communication and discussion between branches of the organization; they appoint reliable yes-men and yes-women to positions of power over the membership; and they accuse anyone who objects to any of this of being anti-Leninist and opposed to democratic centralism, as if these practices remotely resemble those of Lenin or the Russian Social Democratic Labor Party!<br /><br />This is all par for the “Leninist” course and ends up recreating the alienation of capitalism in the name of anti-capitalism, perpetuating ruling cliques in the name of eradicating 1% rule, and fostering male chauvinism internally while championing anti-sexism in the world at large."<br /><br />Dave Pouliot (pouliotatu1415@hotmail.com)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06550192611071633134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-22777388748717803112013-01-17T19:04:44.632+00:002013-01-17T19:04:44.632+00:00Yes, it's true that any analysis of the UK can...Yes, it's true that any analysis of the UK can't simply be transplanted to other countries, although interestingly there's often far more in common than people realise. If I had more time I'd investigate the situation elsewhere more thoroughly. It would certainly be useful to have insights from socialists in a number of different countries. Alex Snowdonhttp://luna17activist.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-27433062908540363072013-01-17T18:55:02.235+00:002013-01-17T18:55:02.235+00:00It's always a combination of both, isn't i...It's always a combination of both, isn't it? The times of major growth for the left have been in reaction to war or economic crisis (or both). Of course any left that wants to gain serious popular traction has to offer alternatives, but it's as much to do with our capacity for delivering alternatives, i.e. the state of resistance, of class struggle, as the coherence and attractiveness of the alternatives being offered. Alex Snowdonhttp://luna17activist.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-76332576234725519522013-01-16T00:26:42.072+00:002013-01-16T00:26:42.072+00:00Thanks for a very interesting article! But the dif...Thanks for a very interesting article! But the different ten-point-comments seems not so toughen-through or at least seams quite super-fiscal to me, as a swedish resident. But all, of course, have some interesting points. <br />I have one critic of the article though, it seems to me that most of your points to explain the problems of the left (world-wide) begins right, with a worldwide perspective, but in the chapter "revisiting three hypothesis" you speak almost exclusively about British politics, which may show why SWP, SSP and likewise had wrong analysis or problems with growing, but I don´t see the simple parallel to other countries, or at least I miss an explanation to how this fits the wider (world-wider:) picture.<br />But I could´t agree more to your conclusionsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-32686717526359036082013-01-15T21:28:15.269+00:002013-01-15T21:28:15.269+00:00spot on saltleygatesspot on saltleygatesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-88515178433693587242013-01-15T19:13:25.861+00:002013-01-15T19:13:25.861+00:00Anonymous - you might not believe the Brum shooter...Anonymous - you might not believe the Brum shooters burned the Barton Arms, but it seems to be true.<br /><br />http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/birmingham-riots-sixth-man-guilty-186413<br /><br /><i>"Expropriation, people who need things like food taking them, is the most vital ingredient of a successful communist revolution."</i><br /><br />Do trainers and mobiles count as food?<br /><br />Laban Tallhttp://ukcommentators.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-53701826178519519202013-01-15T18:29:55.084+00:002013-01-15T18:29:55.084+00:00In the period of growth of the socialist movement ...In the period of growth of the socialist movement they were arguing FOR something. Much of the left stance now is arguing AGAINST (the cuts etc.). People need an alternative, which is not just 'what we have now or had yesteryear'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-38126026605786879032013-01-14T15:30:23.413+00:002013-01-14T15:30:23.413+00:00Alex,
Since you would like Anonymous to site &quo...Alex, <br />Since you would like Anonymous to site "something more recent", you'll be glad to see that they site Occupy, UK Uncut & the 2011 Peoples Olympics.<br /><br />Laban,<br />I don't believe that those were "The same people who burned the Barton Arms". I don't believe that anybody has the views that you describe as deluded. Expropriation, people who need things like food taking them, is the most vital ingredient of a successful communist revolution.<br />http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/kropotkin/conquest/toc.html<br />The police shot Mark Duggan because he was encouraging London gangs to not shoot each other.<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Faysa6h0lR8Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-39199874931921009302013-01-13T20:08:27.598+00:002013-01-13T20:08:27.598+00:00"In Brum; some lads lured the police in to at...<i>"In Brum; some lads lured the police in to attack them with guns"</i><br /><br />Weren't those the same people who burned the Barton Arms, a beautiful listed Victorian pub?<br /><br />I tell you this. The coalition would love it - love it - if August 2011 kicked off again. If anyone thinks looting Carphone Warehouse (bookshops and DIY stores were untouched) and killing elderly people is the future of opposition politics, they're sadly deluded. Even when the police hate this government - which they do. Laban Tallhttp://ukcommentators.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-21033765154342606502013-01-13T19:11:36.720+00:002013-01-13T19:11:36.720+00:00This is essentially an anarchist critique. Its ton...This is essentially an anarchist critique. Its tone and stance sum up many of the problems faced by various left-wing and progressive currents. Why? Because instead of reflecting on the failures of your own strand of politics and organisation (anarchism), you indulge in point-scoring and sweeping generalisations about a very different political current (revolutionary socialism). <br /><br />You appear not to have noticed that your own preferred political approaches have got into a rut. Citing Reclaim the Streets as an example - rather than something more recent - sums this up. There has been a marked decline in the anarchist or anarchist-influenced milieu you allude to - and appear to advocate - over the last 10-20 years. It's therefore very hard to have any authority for making such criticisms. Reflect, be self-critical, think afresh. Don't just instinctively lash out with all the tired clichés of those who want to bash anyone in the Leninist tradition. Alex Snowdonhttp://luna17activist.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-10403178042177182872013-01-13T19:04:24.785+00:002013-01-13T19:04:24.785+00:00Just a brief comment on this. Yes, it's true t...Just a brief comment on this. Yes, it's true that there has been a big shift on what might broadly be described as 'cultural questions', or what are sometimes associated with being 'socially liberal' rather than 'socially conservative'. I think 'cultural revolution' is an exaggeration and there's much more to be done in these areas, but it's fair to point to a major change here. <br /><br />I agree that the left - broadly defined - has generally been more successful at achieving progress in these respects than on economic questions (whether at the level of ideas or the level of practical change). This is a long term phenomenon and, as yet, shows no sign of changing. <br /><br />What difference does this make to questions of political organisation? I'll leave that as an open question. Alex Snowdonhttp://luna17activist.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-6632483121036889052013-01-13T18:59:32.263+00:002013-01-13T18:59:32.263+00:00Sean, I have no idea what a 'deeply moralistic...Sean, I have no idea what a 'deeply moralistic Trotskyist mash-up' is, but it looks suspiciously like name-calling in place of thoughtful critique. Alex Snowdonhttp://luna17activist.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-42821079938955300442013-01-13T18:57:25.374+00:002013-01-13T18:57:25.374+00:00I know you do, Rosa. And I'm *still* not convi...I know you do, Rosa. And I'm *still* not convinced that it's the answer to our problems! Alex Snowdonhttp://luna17activist.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-5796694110540391052013-01-13T18:55:57.074+00:002013-01-13T18:55:57.074+00:00I agree that inspiration is important and we alway...I agree that inspiration is important and we always need an alternative vision of a different sort of society. But the more pressing questions at present are very practical and certainly won't be solved by talking more about what sort of world we are fighting for. <br /><br />We need to be thinking through immediate political questions - especially over austerity - and how they are translated into activity and organisation. The crucial missing link is a serious coalition against austerity. Coalition of Resistance is the closest we've got, but what's missing is a sizeable base of socialist activists to drive it forward and get it rooted in local areas. Alex Snowdonhttp://luna17activist.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-19001444928349208972013-01-13T18:50:57.761+00:002013-01-13T18:50:57.761+00:00Yes, there are some problems with connotations of ...Yes, there are some problems with connotations of 'the left', but I'm not convinced that's a major issue. A lot of people are happy to identify themselves as on the left of the political spectrum. The more substantial issues, in my view, are about how to channel that into effective forms of organisation. Alex Snowdonhttp://luna17activist.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-12326451069740610652013-01-13T15:32:39.683+00:002013-01-13T15:32:39.683+00:00Your article speaks volumes about why the left ain...Your article speaks volumes about why the left ain't working. It's written in a language that only those on the far left could decipher. Here is some more:<br />1)Where was the support for the August 2011 rioters on the streets? In Brum; some lads lured the police in to attack them with guns. That's Black Panther stuff. Far more revolutionary than selling boring papers.<br />2)I don't see you on my estate. Your perceived as being separate to working class stuggle; with some noble exceptions amongst the IWW and some anarchists. Alex C is an Oxford professor FFS.<br />3) Where is the fun? Reclaim the Streets had some success in the nineties because their actions were a laugh.<br />4) If you attach yourself to a movement that has risen in spite of you like Occupy or UK Uncut, don't fuck it up with boring Trot nonsense. Go with it, don't deaden it.<br />5) Lets not march from A to B anymore. Lets be original.<br />6)Judean Peoples Front anyone?<br />7)Central organising commitees. "Don't tell me what to do?"<br />8)Predatory men<br />These are criticisms, but they are not hostile. It all can be done. Don't think of new groups, think of new actions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-48611210575062665362013-01-12T21:40:30.730+00:002013-01-12T21:40:30.730+00:00I think your analysis ignores two things
a) the f...I think your analysis ignores two things<br /><br />a) the fact of the cultural revolution (and that's not too strong a word - think of Cameron and gay marriage, or Cameron supporting Hope not Hate) since the 1960s<br /><br />b) the fact that mass immigration means that in an upturn, it's not a sellers market for labour, and in a downturn - like the last few years - it's absolutely a buyers market, with all that implies (negatively) for working class solidarity, terms and conditions, militancy. <br /><br />As Marx put it:<br /><br /><i>"The main purpose of the bourgeois in relation to the worker is, of course, to have the commodity labour as cheaply as possible, which is only possible when the supply of this commodity is as large as possible in relation to the demand for it"</i> <br /><br /><br />c) and the fact that a) facilitated b). It's no accident that the "left" cultural agenda has completely triumphed even as the economic agenda has been utterly defeated.<br /><br /><br />This Canadian academic <a href="http://www.evoandproud.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/years-end.html" rel="nofollow">nails it :</a><br /><br /><i>"In late capitalism, the elites are no longer restrained by ties of national identity and are thus freer to enrich themselves at the expense of their host society. This clash of interests lies at the heart of the globalist project: on the one hand, jobs are outsourced to low-wage countries; on the other, low-wage labor is insourced for jobs that cannot be relocated, such as in the construction and service industries.<br /><br />This two-way movement redistributes wealth from owners of labor to owners of capital. Business people benefit from access to lower-paid workers and weaker labor and environmental standards. Working people are meanwhile thrown into competition with these other workers. As a result, the top 10% of society is pulling farther and farther ahead of everyone else, and this trend is taking place throughout the developed world. The rich are getting richer … not by making a better product but by making the same product with cheaper and less troublesome inputs of labor."</i> <br /><br />Now I don't see today's left being able to square this circle. Because being against immigration is what the Bad People do. And they're the Good People.<br /><br />So we're probably looking at <a href="http://ukcommentators.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/the-end-of-journey-will-soon-be-in-sight.html" rel="nofollow">the end of the Welfare State</a> in the next twenty or thirty years.<br />Laban Tallhttp://ukcommentators.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-83980678528297869822013-01-12T09:52:49.630+00:002013-01-12T09:52:49.630+00:00Dear Luna
Right question, wrong answers. Chris Bam...Dear Luna<br />Right question, wrong answers. Chris Bambery's deeply moralistic trotskyist mash-up as represented by the IST certainly don't help either. <br />Robert Kurz outlines some important problems, as published by Chronos publications in a small book called 'No Revolution Anywhere' available from Housmans books, and elsewhere. <br />Sean Delaney <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-14251865298318700062013-01-10T11:51:47.666+00:002013-01-10T11:51:47.666+00:00I adopt an entirely different approach, and look a...I adopt an entirely different approach, and look at wider structural and theoretical issues that help explain why the far left (in the UK, and elsewhere) has stagnated over the last ten years or more, here:<br /> <br />http://anti-dialectics.co.uk/page%2009_02.htm<br />Rosa Lichtensteinhttp://anti-dialectics.co.uk/index.htmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-7855454872067906702013-01-07T21:00:32.130+00:002013-01-07T21:00:32.130+00:00Problem is the term "left" still has der...Problem is the term "left" still has derogatory overtones and will take a lot of traction and persuasion to get past it. Ideally the left need a consistent set of ideas which can agreed on by the various groups involved with none of the infighting and bickeringAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02025754320147542560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-50697039685247166842013-01-06T11:22:20.159+00:002013-01-06T11:22:20.159+00:00Yes, "many people know what they are against ...Yes, "many people know what they are against but not what they are for."<br /><br />But 'the vision of the new society is an indispensable part of the case for changing the old society.' - Paul Foot (Red Shelley)<br /><br />'The left' has plenty of (correct AND accepted) critique of the 'old society', but not enough vision of the new. WE NEED SOME INSPIRATION.<br /><br />As Foot went on to say, "Our world, like his [Shelley's], needs agitators. People's aspirations need to be lifted & guided into action."TonyDowlingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-76671592129071631772013-01-06T10:16:18.635+00:002013-01-06T10:16:18.635+00:00Brian, my own views on your points is roughly as f...Brian, my own views on your points is roughly as follows. <br /><br />I think points 1-4 are certainly all valid. The remaining points are perhaps a bit trickier. In relation to point 5, I agree that we need to articulate things in terms of equality, fairness etc, though I don't think this excludes referring to things being 'left-wing'. The concepts of right-wing and left-wing go back to the French Revolution and have been integral to European (including British) political language for generations. They still, it seems to me, have a place. <br /><br />I think points 6 and 7 are linked to the Left being relatively weak and small. There is certainly discussion about the things you refer to within the left, but we're limited in conveying these arguments in a wider context, like mainstream media. Getting more such opportunities, and creating bigger spaces for left-wing ideas to flourish, depends partly on building resistance and opposition, partly on socialists getting our act together on a more organisational level. <br /><br />There are several things that could be said on point 8, but I will limit myself to this observation. The left, in my view, is largely rooted in the working class and gives expression to working class interests. But what is still a live, not entirely resolved, issue is the whole business of how the working class has changed over time and what that actually means for building a Left. The class has in some ways changed, so what does that mean for changes in left-wing organising? Alex Snowdonhttp://luna17activist.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-60587551611751909872013-01-06T10:02:46.815+00:002013-01-06T10:02:46.815+00:00Thanks for your comment. I think, however, that mo...Thanks for your comment. I think, however, that most of those points are too sweeping and general. They might be true in some cases, but not in others. <br /><br />As I've explained above in the main post, I am not convinced by the idea that problems of democracy, leadership etc are at the heart of the revolutionary left's problems. Organisations vary in the kind of democratic culture they have - and clearly some could be much better - but our thinking about this needs to be linked to understanding their political and strategic direction. Organisational problems and political problems go together. Focusing on the former at the expense of the latter is, I think, a common error in these sorts of discussions. Alex Snowdonhttp://luna17activist.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-56328243992697076802013-01-06T09:56:29.836+00:002013-01-06T09:56:29.836+00:00Indeed. The rightwards shift of parties like Labou...Indeed. The rightwards shift of parties like Labour has affected the whole terms of political debate. It has clearly marginalised any sort of authentic left and made it harder for us to get a hearing. This is an international and long-term phenomenon. At the same time, many millions of people do have ideas and values which are substantially to the left of that mainstream. A key question underpinning all of this is how we express and organise that sentiment, beyond the (very important) level of protests, campaigns etc. Alex Snowdonhttp://luna17activist.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093114275469628673.post-9999615753127422632013-01-06T09:49:38.902+00:002013-01-06T09:49:38.902+00:00I certainly agree that left-wing activists have to...I certainly agree that left-wing activists have to be involved in local anti-cuts campaigning to have credibility, make an impact and be relevant to wider layers of people. This involves finding ways of being "immediately relevant" as you put it (rather than simply propagandising, etc). <br /><br />I'm not sure if we're well-placed to do the specific things you suggest, though I have nothing against them. They are perhaps things that could best be done through trade union branches, with the involvement of left-wing activists and anti-cuts groups. Here in Newcastle the RMT ran a Christmas Eve soup kitchen, tied in with some of its members (low-paid Metro cleaners) taking strike action over XMAS. Alex Snowdonhttp://luna17activist.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.com